Three times in 36 seconds!
Quite a feat. According to my recent evidence, Vernon Kay currently holds the record for this particular accomplishment. Some might even call it an iconic achievement. But please don't, as I may be tempted to scream... I nearly screamed at the car radio when he did it too. It was a couple of weeks or so ago when it actually happened, during his morning slot on Radio 2 (not my choice of station): Vernon Kay used the word 'iconic' three times in 36 seconds. (I know, such a nerd, I timed it!)
In the short segment I heard he used it to describe Jeremy Vine as the "iconic broadcaster and journalist", a few seconds later he announced Cathy Dennis as "the iconic singer songwriter" and then, just as I was drawing breath ready to emit a shriek of despair at this lack of verbal originality (my "iconic" detector now on full alert), in the very next sentence we were treated to his description of Cathy's big hits as "iconic, anthemic tunes". And who knows how many other times it may have turned up when I wasn't listening?
Of course, once you tune into it you find yourself playing 'Iconic Bingo'. For example, in their current TV ad, Lynx invite you to "smell iconic". Maybelline cosmetics want to sell you "iconic foundation". Magazine articles tell you all about a city's "iconic eats". A quick look through some recent song lyrics and I find lines such as, "lately I've been feeling iconic", "I'm living so iconic" and "iconic brings us together"... Arghh!
Every artist, every book, every film, musician and landmark - they're all deemed "iconic" now. Some of them surely are; I've no issue with that - the adjective was once brought out only to describe something really special, something rare perhaps, undeniably symbolic or memorable, thus it made its point perfectly, we knew what it meant and it had gravitas. So I can't help but find it irritating and a little sad really when terms which were once used sparingly and pertinently like this lose their value - it all seems rather lazy, dull and predictable. We've such a rich and evocative vocabulary, full of choice and nuance; words are such brilliant tools and (last time I looked, anyway) they're free! Instead of "iconic", mightn't it be more interesting to hear a few other descriptions in the mix, such as totemic / eminent / acclaimed / unforgettable / renowned / seminal / emblematic / esteemed / famous (or infamous) / distinctive... etc.?
I know language evolves naturally, meanings change and always have done, but some grate more than others. When the same word is used to describe both the Eiffel Tower and your local bakery's doughnut recipe, you know it's had its day.
(Just as I type this post, a promotional email has popped into my inbox from M&S entitled 'Meet our icons'. Who/what are these icons? A checked suit, a roll-neck sweater, loafers and a top-handle bag.)
Oops!
ReplyDeletehttp://www.johnmedd.com/2023/08/seek-council.html?m=1
JM
Not "Oops!" at all, though, John - because that's exactly what I mean about some things warranting it - such as that outstanding building. Just a shame it's no longer reserved for those which genuinely deserve it, but is being used so casually - we'll have iconic paperclips next. Oh god, I sound old...
DeleteThe problem is, we live in an age of hyperbole, where everyone wants to express themselves to the max. It's not enough just to like a song, film, performance any more, you have to grab the most extreme adjective you can think of to profess your adoration.
ReplyDeleteOh, and also there are lots of people who use words that they don't properly understand, just because they sound cool.
I have a funny feeling it must irritate the hell out of you too, Rol... I do hope you get the chance to wield a little inflluence, though. Yes, that's it, isn't it? - everything has to be the most extreme but then where do we go from there? Maybe it's time to bring back some tremendously smashing archaic words...
DeleteVernon's use of the word 'iconic' is seminal.
ReplyDeleteWhy is it that that sounds rather rude?!
DeleteYour filthy mind probably. It is the word music magazines use to describe every old album that is quite good.
DeleteYes and yes!
DeleteHe's not the only DJ of limited vocabulary. I heard a live outside broadcast on a national station in which the roving reporter could only describe everything as "amazing". To the extent that eventually his producer must have had a word in his earpiece because he caught himself in the act, verbally stumbled whilst trying to think of an alternative word, couldn't, and just flopped out another "amazing". I can quite see why Elvis shot his TV, I felt like drop-kicking the radio.
ReplyDeleteOh, I can just imagine that - yes, "amazing" is another one that's lost its power and I keep coming across it too; sometimes not even used to describe something good but simply as a kind of automatic response, e.g. when ordering food at the pub, "I'll have omelette and chips, please" and the member of staff just trots it out in acknowledgement: "Amazing".
DeleteMind you, when you do genuinely want to describe something really amazing as "amazing", what do you do?!
Slightly different, but way back when I was at primary school I remember being taught that using the word 'nice' wasn't very original and we should try to use other adjectives. It stuck with me, and every time I want to say 'nice' I can hear that teacher's voice in my head - however, I can't think of that many synonyms to comfortably replace it with either. ( 'Pleasant' always sounds a bit half-hearted, 'fine' can sound a bit cursory, etc.)
I lke those images from your link, Martin, thanks (please note I didn't say they were amazing, or nice!)
Not amazing, or nice. Maybe decent?
DeleteThat is a decent alternative!
DeleteAn iconic post C!
ReplyDeleteCan I also through in perfect and also fantastico as used by a youngster serving us a meal
You certainly can, I know just what you mean. I was at the opticians the other day and the girl fitting my new glasses kept saying that after every answer I gave - she was really lovely and I know it's just generational but once I picked up on it, I had to stop myself laughing.
DeleteI'm glad it's not just me C. Almost any use of the word causes me to flinch. Physically flinch. Almost always sued to describe things which are not remotely iconic.
ReplyDeleteEqually glad it's not just me, SA. Hopefully it'll go out of fashion soon...
DeleteThe over-use of "surreal" and "genius" has me grinding my teeth.
ReplyDeleteHi Claire, thanks for reading and commenting, much appreciated. Oh yes, there's two more to add to the list - all these lovely and quite specific words are getting watered down; what will we turn to when they all lose their value?!
DeleteI agree,as if he wasn't irritating enough.Another over used word is legend/legendary when,obviously,the subject at hand clearly isn't.
ReplyDeleteI think it's because there is a limitless amount of time to fill with multiple t.v. channels,podcasts,blogs,radio etc that the competition becomes increasingly manic in its promotion and content to get listeners.viewers etc
I remember when MySpace took off and somebody described it as being like 1000s of people in a big stadium all shouting about themselves.
David Mitchell did a great sketch on all the hype surrounding football which fairly sums up the constant hysteria required to sell your widget in an over crowded widget market
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MusyO7J2inM
Another over used word is basically...aarrgghh! It usually precedes somebody talking about something that goes on to be extremely long winded and complex.
Another irritating use of the word is as a filler and punctuation,saying basically every other word.I worked with someone a few years ago who used it ALL the time.We ended up calling him 'Basically'
BTW I was in a band in 1981/82 called The Icons.The name of course was post modern and ironic(!)..honestly.
I think we would be described now as post punk.At the time we just called it 'punk influenced',our songwriters main influences being The Only Ones,Magazine,The Damned,The Stranglers(our bass player was a Peter Hook/J J Burnell hybrid) Buzzcocks and The Adverts.
Hi Anon - thanks so much for dropping by and for your comment. I agree with all you say - love that early description of MySpace, and that was then! Look at it now...even more people, an even bigger stadium, shouting ever louder (with pictures of their lunch thrown in for good measure) - how ridiculous it all is when we just distil it like that. I realise I am just not cut out for the modern world...! The David Mitchell sketch is great too, that increasing and misplaced hysteria - whatever happened to quiet dignity?!
DeleteI know what you mean about 'basically' - ditto 'obviously' when it isn't obvious and of course 'literally' when it means the opposite. At the same time when I'm in a generous mood I try to remind myself that so many words inevitably change meaning over time, and several that I grew up and used with would have meant something quite different in previous centuries, e.g. 'awful' originally meaning something that inspired awe... But those ones irk me!
It sounds as if your band would have been right up my street in the early '80s - great influences. I don't remember the word 'icon' being very widely used back then, either, it seemed quite unusual, so a decent choice for a band name at that time and nicely ironic as you say. Your band didn't by any chance support Flux of Pink Indians at a gig in Stevenage, did it? Or was it another one with the same name?
Hello SDS,I think you maybe thinking of Icons of Filth who were a Flux/Rubella/The Mob kind of band.We only did a couple of gigs,one supporting The Outcasts at the legendary Granary in Bristol and,bear with me,it WAS a legendary venue.Between 60s and late 80s,every band worth it's salt played there.It was an old warehouse with the venue spread over 3 floors.A bit grubby,sweaty,crowdwd,smokey.....perfect! Here's a short piece about it.
ReplyDeleteIt concentrates on the pre punk era but plenty of punk,post punk,thrash,metal,indie etc played there from late 70s until it closed in 1988. There are some good internal shots which gives bit of the atmosphere plus a bit of Stranglers. Oh yeah,Jekka McVicar,herb impressario, who features,has her business just round the corner from me.Must pay a visit.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8cVaZj7S3c
One of my biggest musical regrets-not going to see Theatre of Hate there in 1981.I was walking past with my girlfriend and we stopped for a bit listening to their soundcheck then went on to see another band- the Bodysnatchers.,who were good.
Granary also features in this from 55 mins for about 3 mins.Gives a taste of the atmosphere and feel of the place.Me and a few friends were extras.Got £15 and all the food we could eat.Took all day to film as the writer and one of the lead actors,Ken Campbell, was a bit drunk and irrascible....hahaaa.You can't see me in it(booo) but my girlfriend at the time can be seen quite well-she'e the one with massive bleached beehive.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzvbFXKJho0
BTW My name is Mark.I posted a comment on here a couple of years ago(it was about smashing up our musical equipment at a school Christmas party whilst miming to Anarchy - it was vetoed...hahaaaa) When I wrote and went to post my comment I thought it would send me to log in and therefore pick up on my previous post and name but it just went straight on.
Hi Mark - thanks for this, a great read. Ah, I stayed in Bristol a few years ago and I walked past The Granary every day! (I was at a hotel in Welsh Back). Such a shame it had to close as a venue, I'd heard about it before and it does indeed sound legendary (in exactly the right way). Thanks for the links, very interesting, and I loved seeing the colourful crowd in the film and your at-the-time girlfriend's amazing hair! I miss those days - seeing and hearing and being part of all that post-punk creativity, not just the music but the clothes, make-up, etc. - all the fun to be had with charity shop cast-offs, a black eyeliner and a can of hairspray! Sounds too like you had a blast as an extra on that film and a shame you didn't make it to the final cut yourself but at least you knew you were there.
DeleteI never saw Theatre of Hate either (nor the Bodysnatchers)... loads of others too I wish I could have caught but I suppose wejust have to be grateful that we saw whoever we did get to see when they and we were still young.
You have some great memories there, if you ever feel like blogging a few of them yourself?!
Hello SDS. It's been nearly a month since you replied.I thought it was just last week - talk about time flying.
ReplyDeleteThinking back,it was the Modettes we went to see and later on that year,'81,the Belle Stars.
You're right,it was great back then.
In 1982 three friends rented a house and for the next 3/4 years it was like the Young Ones house..not as dirty though..hahaha.People moving in and out,I lived there for about 5 months,and people staying there,sometimes for just the night or a few months.All life was there-punks,hippies,art students,bikers etc etc.Brilliant.
There was a general grocery shop just round the corner run by these twin women,probably in their 40s/50s who were like prototypes for Tubbs from the League of Gentlemen.We used to take about 20 mins getting ready just to go there for a packet of fags - hair,make up,clothes etc etc to be greeted by a mixture of amusement,curiosity and fear-they thought we were real weirdos.We used to tell them we were the good guys,which we were.(BTW the hair was done with soap,hairsparay and sometimes a bit of glue ..hahahaa)
We were also the weed smoking and loud music champions of the south west...hahaa
Talking of all the creativity back then and exes,this video popped up in my YouTube suggestions the other day.No idead why.
We were together for a couple of years in the mid 90s.(I'm talking about the woman,not the bloke singing...haha).Seems I had a thing for big hair(!)
The two of them were together back then,early80s.I vaguely knew them-friends of friends kind of thing. I knew about his band ,The Electric Guitars but had no idea he did this solo stuff.I know the director of the video too.The video is good,not too sure about the song though - a bit sub Thompson Twins(!)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTS9lN363P8
Hi again Mark, apologies for late reply to this comment too but it got buried beneath more recent stuff! Lovely comment, thank you so much - and I enjoyed the video too. The stories are all there, aren't they, from a big-haired, youth tribe, indie band world that no longer exists. Your tales are marvellous - there's a book in there!
DeleteHello SDS,Mark here - yet again,time has flown.
ReplyDeleteI don't know if you're on Instagram but I have been posting on there for a bit,a sort of blog, as mark_ahogilvie
I just post odds and ends but have recently been cataloguing all the t-shirts and cover versions I have accumulated over the years with accompanying info/story/background/comment/history on each item.
When I've done that I think I'll move onto interesting carrier bags I have horded over the years - oh yes,an integral and important part of our cultural hinterland don't you know....hahahaaa
Hi again Mark, thanks for this. I'm not on Instagram but for various reasons lately thinking I should sign up for an account anyway even if I don't put anything on there as I've been pointed in the direction of various other people's and I can only see a few images before it shuts me out! So I managed a glimpse of yours before that happened - caught sight of a few record covers which triggered memories. I understand about the carrier bags too - never kept many but there are still a few of those little carriers for 7"s from record shops scrunched up at the back of the cupboard because they were just too hard to part with at the time!
DeleteAnyway if/when I get an Instagram account hope to enjoy yours some more.